RESPONSE - The need to listen

Felicity Dale wrote about new wineskins having no value unless there is new wine to put into them.

I suggest you read her post in full, I've included some extracts below (FD) as well as extracts from my reply. (CJ).

Jesus said that new wine needs new wineskins (Luke 5:36-40). A new wineskin is only needed if there is new wine. If simple/organic church is like a new wineskin, what is the new wine? Is there something about the life we have together in Christ that needs a new container, that would burst an old wineskin?

Changing the structure of church gains nothing unless it is a response to something that Jesus is doing which wouldn't be easy to contain within the old structures.

Jesus "in the midst" is what church is all about. An individual has Jesus within. Corporately, we have Jesus among us. (FD)

We really do need to listen. We desperately need to listen to one another, and we need to listen to the Holy Spirit even more desperately.

I truly believe lack of listening is one of the stumbling blocks we face in our lives as we work hard to follow Jesus. And that's the problem. We can't follow Jesus by working hard (doing what we think is best) but only by obedience (doing what He thinks is best).

We need to listen first so that we can obey. (CJ)

Here are some take home messages from 'hearing' in meetings. The dated links lead to descriptions of what happened.

This is Felicity's new wine in action, 'something that Jesus is doing which wouldn't be easy to contain within the old structures'. As you read the examples, think very carefully about how church structure (the 'wineskin') might affect the outcome.

• Father's timing is more important than our timing. (From an informal chat in a cafe, 10th August 2011.)
  
• He can nudge us into doing practical things such as giving someone a particular book. Sometimes he may encourage us in what we have heard by things others say or do. (From an informal chat in a cafe, 10th August 2011.)
  
• He may give us pictures that make a point clear. (From an informal chat in a cafe, 10th August 2011.)
  
• We need to be planted in Jesus, very firmly planted and rooted in him. Obedience will follow without fuss or bother. (An address by an invited speaker at a large camp - Faith '11, 7th August 2011.)
• Glory is greater than peace. (A meeting of just two people - or three if you count Jesus, 31st March 2011.)

Notice the variety and originality of the Spirit's touch. He may guide us in different ways in a single meeting, and several meeting formats work well for hearing. There is no 'right' way to meet. It's not about methods. He works through traditional and non-traditional church, he only requires that his followers meet and expect him to take charge.

But what about situations where people take charge, what happens then? I think we all know the answer. To a greater or lesser extent the Holy Spirit will be crushed and will let us carry on managing things ourselves. This is the great tragedy of human control in the body.

I used to publish meeting notes quite regularly, more recently I've stopped doing this. Perhaps I might begin doing so again.

(Related post, 'RESPONSE: Are you listening?')

FAMILY - Ickworth on the way home

< Crabbing and friends | Index | No later items >

This was the last day of the holiday and we headed home during the morning. We stopped en route to explore another garden and stately home, Ickworth House.

Ickworth is a grand house surrounded by magnificent woodland and a series of small, concealed gardens. It was never enjoyed by its eccentric builder as he didn't live to see it finished. The house is circular and has a massive dome. There are long, curved wings on either side intended to hold collections of art.

It's a quirky home and we thought the gardens were disappointing. They are small and limited in scope. But the parkland near the house has some fine clipped yew and box. We strolled through the orangery and ate a packed lunch on a bench in the park.

Then finally, on towards home via the A14 and A428 - familiar roads and countryside.

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FAMILY - Catching crabs and time with friends

< Garden, castle, film | Index | Ickworth House >

Today was the last full day of the holiday. We visited Walberswick (famous for crabbing), met some old friends, and spent some time in the evening tidying and packing for the journey home.

We spent the morning at the delightful village of Walberswick catching crabs and drinking take-away coffee and tea from the cafe on the pretty village green.

Steve, Debbie, Aidan and Sara caught 14 crabs from the beach car park, later Beth, Paz, Meredith and Verity caught some more from the river car park.

Our friends Ken and Gayna joined us between the two crabbing events and met the family, we haven't seen them for ages and it was great to spend time with them. We left the crabbers and took the rowing boat ferry across the river with Ken and Gayna for some excellent fish and chips - the first cod I've eaten for many years!

We ordered at the counter and then ate the food in the little restaurant, the entrance door is locked and has to be released by the guy behind the counter to let customers through. This seems a rather quaint idea but presumably stops hordes of non-customers trooping in and out to use the chip shop's loos.

By the time we arrived back on the north bank the others had left and we continued to Ken and Gayna's home in Yoxford and spent the afternoon chatting. Church life was the main topic of conversation. Ken has stepped back from managing the church's small groups and they're waiting to see what happens next. They're quite interested in SASHET so I need to go and visit them to spend more time explaining CO2 and answering any questions.

Back at home we enjoyed a relaxed evening and did a bit of tidying up and packing, ready for the departure tomorrow.

< Garden, castle, film | Index | Ickworth House >

FAMILY - A garden, a castle, a film

< Ancient ship | Index | Crabbing and friends >

Today Donna and I visited a beautiful garden and a mediaeval castle while the others explored Orford Ness. Back at home we ate a simple but enjoyable meal, then Steve and I walked into town to see the film 'Senna'.

We drove to Helmingham Hall where there is a fine old house and a lovely series of gardens. The house was built from 1520 as a half-timbered structure but in Georgian times the lower level was faced with brick and the upper levels with matching tiles.

The house itself is not open to the public as the Tollemache family still live there, but we spent an interesting morning in the gardens. The house is moated, and the walled garden also has a moat around it, surely a very unusual feature!

We ate in the small restaurant in the old stables, then drove to Framlingham to look at the castle. Like so many British castles this one was badly damaged during the Civil War. There is plenty left to see, however, and the uppermost level of the curtain wall has been repaired suffiently to make it possible to walk right the way round. The views are magnificent.

There was a re-enactment of the Battle of Agincourt going on in the castle grounds. Visiting children were invited to play the part of the English while the adults took the role of the French. There was a lot of laughter as the adults were frequently made to look silly by the man in charge of proceedings. But it was all good fun and very educational into the bargain.

Steve and I both loved the film 'Senna'. It consisted mainly of TV footage from the 1980s and 90s supplemented by snippets of amateur film and some stills. But the poor image quality was more than compensated for by the strength of the story, told as it happened by the people who were there.

< Ancient ship | Index | Crabbing and friends >

FAMILY - An ancient ship

< Thorpeness walk | Index | Garden, castle, film >

We headed a little further south today, visiting the Sutton Hoo Saxon burial and returning via the charming little town of Woodbridge.

Sutton Hoo is the site of a Saxon ship burial. The site is owned by the National Trust and includes the area containing the burial mounds as well as the home of the owner who invited a local archaeologist to dig one of the mounds in 1938.

The visitor centre has a video presentation on the burial and a full size reconstruction of the dead warrior with his grave goods arranged around him. He is thought to have been Rædwald who ruled the East Angles and died in the early 600s CE. This was a time after Roman civilisation had faded away in what is now England and the Angles and Saxons had settled in the land. In East Anglia, they had already been living here for a couple of centuries and the Brythonic language was probably already fully replaced by a form of Old English.

Donna and I had lunch in the visitor centre, left the rest of the family exploring Sutton Hoo, and headed for nearby Woodbridge. Neither of us had been there before and we thought it was a delightful place. It has the advantages of being built on mainly high ground but including an area along the river Deben and easy access to the North Sea.

The main street is full of interesting little shops, cafes and restaurants and I found a book about the Battle of Britain that seemed particularly interesting as it is based partly on recently released material that was not available to earlier historians. I felt a little guilty (but only a little) because I left the shop and downloaded the Kindle version on my phone. Now I'm back in the holiday house with a cup of tea and have read part of the first chapter. We returned to the car via the marina on the riverside, then back to the house for the evening with the entire family back together again.

< Thorpeness walk | Index | Garden, castle, film >

FAMILY - Walking to Thorpeness

< The beach | Index | Ancient ship >

The main event today was a long walk. We set off from the house and walked to Aldeburgh to see a lifeboat display. Then we headed on to Thorpeness for a picnic lunch and some boating. Then finally a walk back to Aldeburgh to see the carnival floats and visit the funfair. We walked home, ate our evening meal, and then Beth, Debbie and Donna set off again with the older children to see the fireworks.

Paz set off early for a walk north up the coast, Beth and the family followed later. The rest of us headed for Aldeburgh.

We're quite familiar with the walk to town now, every twist and turn, the houses and shops we pass, the trees and gardens and green, open spaces. Today was a little different as some of the roads were closed for the carnival, there were police directing traffic, and there were hordes of people milling about.

On the shingle beach a large crowd was waiting expectantly for the scheduled lifeboat display. Some men in the water lit a smoke generating flare and waved for help, then two lifeboats were launched and rescued them. A rescue helicopter appeared overhead and gave a bit of a display as the boats hurtled along parallel to the beach. The waves they created crashed into the pebble beach and made the children near the water leap back to avoid a drenching.

Walking to Thorpeness along the beach path we watched 'The House in the Clouds' growing closer and eventually turned into the village to settle beside the pond for our sandwich lunch. The Meare looked inviting so we hired a rowing boat; Steve rowed and Aidan did his best to steer, sometimes taking us in rather unexpected directions! Later, Steve and I shared the rowing until we got back to the bank for the return walk to Aldeburgh.

Back in town we saw the carnival procession start off and spent some time in the fairground at the other end of town. Aidan chose the Crazy House and then went on a faster ride with Debbie - and loved it.

Back at home we met up again with Beth, Paz and family and shared a salad with cold meats and cheeses and some excellent sourdough bread.

As the sun was setting Donna, Debbie and Beth set out to walk back to town again with Meredith and Aidan for the evening's firework display. But I stayed in the house with Steve, Paz and the two younger ones. I've had enough of crowds for one day, I feel the need for some contemplation and quiet space to recharge my batteries.

< The beach | Index | Ancient ship >